Posts by Half banana

10

SOLA SCRIPTURA VS THE MAGISTERIUM

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

the reinvention of the magisterium.

in catholicism, the magisterium is the authority that lays down what is the authentic teaching of the church.

for the catholic church, that authority is vested uniquely in...... a) the pope and.

Half banana

Let me congratulate you Nicholaus K on your determination to stand up against JW ‘authority.’

I say you are reading the Bible on “face value” because it is the instinct of the Bible reader to do that, to believe what he or she is reading... and not to find fault. It is what you do if you are a believer.

Having had the luxury (and pleasure!) of not being a JW for many years, I look back and cringe at my gullibility in the past. I too looked at the Greek language to try and gain some insight. But it is like praising a piece of glass cut deceptively into the shape of a diamond. We fussed over the details and facets and meaning of words as if to get at some supernatural truth, to enjoy closeness to some invisible force at the heart of the universe. If you will forgive me being so blunt; it is an illusion, a fraud. It was the Roman Church which compiled the Bible and labelled it ”sacred.” There is no divinity behind it otherwise it would not be so full of contradictions and grotesque inhuman behaviour passed off as divine will. If the Bible was from God it would not repeat vivid folk legends and elevate them to holy truth. Only in the rear view mirror is all of this apparent...it is hidden from the ’true believer’.

The antidote is critical thinking. Instead ask: Why was this written? Which earlier documents is it copied from? When is the first time in literature or art that we hear or see this concept? Where did this idea originate? Why is this story being told? Who actually wrote it first (as opposed to the conventional attribution)? Is it possible that this actually happened? Is there any corroboration of this episode from reliable eyewitnesses or secular reports? Do we have a history of handwritten texts covering the same matter, with which to compare? Are our sources impartial and scholarly? On this last matter there are many who are called Bible scholars...don’t listen to them! Consider instead the researches and arguments of the textual scholars of ancient history in the Middle East who spend their academic careers immersed in the languages, archaeology and historical evidence from that area.

”Bible based scholars” on the other hand, can never arrive at a goal of understanding because they are looking in the wrong place namely: the Bible. The life and political bluster of the Israelites and their gods is small fry compared to the great political and religious forces of the region, Babylon, Assyria, Egypt and later Persia. These are the true sources of the Hebrew Bible and its texts, not the bovine idol Yahweh, the son of El.

Early Christianity is best described from a knowledge of social history and the sociology of the period (what they had, what they did and why they did it)...This includes an understanding of the mythology of the earlier Christ cults especially the Dionysian and Orphic cults and the Christian eschatology which is drawn wholesale from Mithraism. A knowledge of Gnosticism and Greek philosophy of the time is very revealing and also familiarity with the contemporary Roman religious ethos. It is shocking to find that the Bible is almost entirely UNORIGINAL.

However we are all on a journey out of the Watchtower and we are at liberty to take any path we wish but I am suggesting that most of us realise eventually if not sooner, that the Bible does not stand up to any serious scrutiny as a divine work; it is entirely human in origin.

10

SOLA SCRIPTURA VS THE MAGISTERIUM

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

the reinvention of the magisterium.

in catholicism, the magisterium is the authority that lays down what is the authentic teaching of the church.

for the catholic church, that authority is vested uniquely in...... a) the pope and.

Half banana

Nicholas, whereas you praise the beauty of the familiar scriptures it seems that you too take them on face value and want to believe them. The Bible is the work of religious pedagogues, selected to control people and comfort them. As I stressed before JWs only cross-reference, that is the limit of their vision of truth but reality takes into account the reason why the Bible was compiled. Beliefs have no universal value unless they are based on tangible evidence. Internal cross-referencing of scripture is ignorance. Belief in spirits and a spirit world is to give your life away to the controllers of your imagination.

10

SOLA SCRIPTURA VS THE MAGISTERIUM

by Nicholaus Kopernicus in

the reinvention of the magisterium.

in catholicism, the magisterium is the authority that lays down what is the authentic teaching of the church.

for the catholic church, that authority is vested uniquely in...... a) the pope and.

Half banana

An interesting comparison and another example of the permanently changing structural conflicts inside the WTBTS.

I have been watching their unbounded admiration for the RC Church grow, like them, becoming hierarchical (in 1985). Until they were busted by the Guardian Newspaper for belonging to the UN as a NGO, it seemed they had their sights on emulating the Catholics for the purpose of prestige and influence not to mention wealth, to be big hitters on the religious scene. That has been quashed, the bad publicity and court cases and money grabbing are all indicators of decline, dreams of Catholic power have faded. Anyway a doomsday cult is by definition limited to a minor player, condemned as a thorn in the side of orthodoxy.

Another point which can be made about their 'sola scriptura' is that they use the Bible only to validate themselves and their own viewpoint. Beyond that gaping flaw is the intellectual weakness of the org only making internal comparative scriptural references for decidedly, they never look to test for the authenticity of the texts by investigating the origins, sources and editing history of them. They make the gross mistake of all Bible based religions in believing the Catholic Church's lie that it is the inerrant word of God.

49

Phone call straight after the Royal Commission

by umbertoecho in

straight after the commission ended today within minutes, the phone rang.

it was one of the people who are working on it.

firstly she established if i was alright and did i want to talk.. i said i was too tired and unhappy that geoffrey jackson managed to do some preaching....she said they were aware of that.

Half banana

How interesting Defender, the Jdub’s response was due to the Watchtower issue rose tinted spectacles and mental lobotomy performed at their baptism.

What they didn’t notice was the smug self righteousness in GJ, his playing to the witness crowd and his lies. The Jdub expected truthful answers, therefore interpreting uncritically GJ’s replies to be such. Jdubs have no sense of critical thought, they are happy to be dumb sheep.

What struck me was that people who lie only do so to cover their shame. It made me see evidence for the first time that the GB are driven to lying which means they are ashamed of their role, belief or stance.

Is this because they actually know their teachings are fatally flawed and that they are mere imposters?

8

Mr. Geoffrey William Jackson = Humpty Dumpty

by kepler in

when i use a word, humpty dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, it means just what i choose it to mean neither more nor less.. .

the question is, said alice, whether you can make words mean so many different things.. .

the question is, said humpty dumpty, which is to be master thats all.

Half banana

Vicious buggers back then weren't they?

3

My Capstone Essay-

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've had approval for the topic of my capstone essay (which is supposed to demonstrate how far i've travelled in my years of study.. after some negotiation, the unit convenor has approved the topic as: "an investigation of hellenic influences on representations of divinity in daniel 7.".

he was kind enough to suggest that i may find some interesting thoughts in this book, the human and divine in history: herodotus and the book of daniel by paul miskanen.. some may recognise the topic as similar to a thread i started some four months ago, "polytheism in the book of daniel, a late second temple religious document.

that thread* had some interesting reactions, it was based on an idea in a book by jewish scholar, daniel boyarin called, the jewish gospels: the story of the jewish christ.

Half banana

I think that the importance of the medium of theatre is greatly underplayed in the historical transmission of cultural belief. The christ cults used it to disseminate the story of "the man who overcame death" (according to JM Robertson) and the gospels can be argued to be transcripts of contemporary theatre on exactly the same theme. An example being the events leading up to the death of Jesus are telescoped down into one continuous narrative taking place in an unreasonably short period of time...just as it would be if it were in a theatrical presentation.

11

Judgement

by davidmitchell in

https://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/2015-ewhc-1722-qb.pdfjust had a look at this 2015 legal judgement.

one of a number of things that caught my eye was the statement in (11) that "the organisational structure of jehovahs witnesses is modelled on first century christianity as described in the bible".er, hardly.

try acts 2: 44-45"all the believers were together and had everything in common.

Half banana

A key point you make Eden on liability. Had they not become an "organised religion" or technically a "hierarchical" religion in 1985, (which was for the purpose of total control over both its membership and the KH ownership); perhaps they could have passed the blame on to the individual congregations where the abuse took place.

If this is really so then their greed for property and control has come back to bite them in the bum. The complete lack of care for the abused and by prioritising their selfish concern for protecting their name is their downfall. I hope the victims in this case get compensation.

Whatever, the WTBTS does not resemble anything like the conventional view of primitive Christianity.

24

Is Satan really a liar, and the father of the lie?

by Israel Ricky Gonzales in

5 for god knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like god, knowing good and bad.. .

genesis 3:22. jehovah god then said: here the man has become like one of us in knowing good and bad..".

for god knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like god, knowing good and bad.?.

Half banana

As you say Giordano,Christianity as represented by the NT, is a fusion of Hebrew and just about every pagan belief and Greek philosophy going at the time. They were never coherent then... you just needed your partizan faith!

And that's why it is possible to discuss Bible doctrines INTERMINABLY, as in two thousand years, and still arrive at zero conclusions.

11

Judgement

by davidmitchell in

https://jwleaks.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/2015-ewhc-1722-qb.pdfjust had a look at this 2015 legal judgement.

one of a number of things that caught my eye was the statement in (11) that "the organisational structure of jehovahs witnesses is modelled on first century christianity as described in the bible".er, hardly.

try acts 2: 44-45"all the believers were together and had everything in common.

Half banana

That's the next step Doc, they share their valuables with the GB but not among themselves. Yuck.

Even the writings in Acts (mostly spurious) are probably in praise of a mythical time when they all shared things in common. Since the Bible is a fourth century compilation, they were already fictionalising a sublime past which did not happen. Most of the various Christ cults in the early centuries were drawn from the poorest of society and the few wealthier members could show charity notably by sharing in the form of supplying food and meals for all associates of their particular cult (and hence the ready connection of loyalty to a particular cult and its food supply as played upon in the illustration of a faithful and discreet slave).

3

My Capstone Essay-

by fulltimestudent in

jw
friends

i've had approval for the topic of my capstone essay (which is supposed to demonstrate how far i've travelled in my years of study.. after some negotiation, the unit convenor has approved the topic as: "an investigation of hellenic influences on representations of divinity in daniel 7.".

he was kind enough to suggest that i may find some interesting thoughts in this book, the human and divine in history: herodotus and the book of daniel by paul miskanen.. some may recognise the topic as similar to a thread i started some four months ago, "polytheism in the book of daniel, a late second temple religious document.

that thread* had some interesting reactions, it was based on an idea in a book by jewish scholar, daniel boyarin called, the jewish gospels: the story of the jewish christ.

Half banana

I will look forward to a summary of your essay (if not the whole thing!). I think the choice is excellent, an area I would love to investigate in depth myself. It is a critical area of study capable of busting anyone's trust in the divinity of scripture.

So much of adventist and therefore JW belief comes from Daniel and the facts as you have mentioned about the Persian and the Hellenic world is very germane to the development of messianic belief. It links the middle second century BCE Greek philosophical view with the NT world. Not surprising then that the nominally Hebrew Daniel is more accessible and less alien to Greek Christianity. After all it was Greek philosophy and NOT JEHOVAH which gave us the 'logos' which is central to Christianity along with much else from that era.

Keep us informed!